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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Sun Oct 12, 2008 12:11 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 8:43 am 
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I was just thinking about this thread the other day. :lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Sat Jan 09, 2010 11:15 am 
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BlackCalvinist wrote:
I was just thinking about this thread the other day. :lol:


Go answer my question back in the New Years thread you made in the Lounge...:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 5:43 pm 
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:(

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 7:21 pm 
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BlackCalvinist wrote:
:(



Why the sad face?

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:23 pm 
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Lil Crat wrote:
BlackCalvinist wrote:
:(



Why the sad face?


Well, we've had three attacks since Obama's taken office and today they announced Al-Queda is pretty much planning to do something major in the next few months.

Like I said back then (and everyone had a hissy fit about), attacks under Obama may or may not have happened. It would've been nice to have them fall on the 'may not' side.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Wed Feb 03, 2010 10:45 pm 
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BlackCalvinist wrote:
Lil Crat wrote:
BlackCalvinist wrote:
:(



Why the sad face?


Well, we've had three attacks since Obama's taken office and today they announced Al-Queda is pretty much planning to do something major in the next few months.

Like I said back then (and everyone had a hissy fit about), attacks under Obama may or may not have happened. It would've been nice to have them fall on the 'may not' side.


Funny you should say that. I got an email today that was talking about something major is gonna happen in a couple of months:

Quote:
Juval Aviv was the Israeli Agent upon whom the movie 'Munich' was based. He was Golda Meir's bodyguard, and she appointed him to track down and bring to justice the Palestinian terrorists who took the Israeli athletes hostage and killed them during the Munich Olympic Games on the 5th September 1972.

In a lecture in New York City he shared information that EVERY Westerner needs to know.

He predicted the London subway bombing on the Bill O'Reilly show on Fox News stating publicly that it would happen within a week. At the time, O'Reilly laughed, and mocked him saying that in a week he wanted him back on the show. Unfortunately, within a week the terrorist attack had occurred on the 21st July 2005.


Juval Aviv gave intelligence (via what he had gathered in Israel and the Middle East) to the Bush Administration about 9/11 ~ 2001, a month before it occurred. His report specifically said they would use planes as bombs and target high profile buildings and monuments. Congress has since hired him as a security consultant.


Now for his future predictions. He predicts the next terrorist attack on the U.S. will occur within the next few months.


Forget hijacking airplanes, because he says terrorists will NEVER try and hijack a plane again as they know the people onboard will never go down quietly again. Aviv believes our airport security is a joke -- that we have been reactionary rather than proactive in developing strategies that are truly effective.

For example:

1) Our airport technology is outdated. We look for metal, and the new explosives are made of plastic.

2) He talked about how some idiot tried to light his shoe on fire. Because of that, now everyone has to take off their shoes. A group of idiots tried to bring aboard liquid explosives. Now we can't bring liquids on board. He says he's waiting for some suicidal maniac to pour liquid explosive on his underwear; at which point, security will have us all traveling naked!
Every strategy we have is reactionary.

3) We only focus on security when people are heading to the gates.

Aviv says that if a terrorist attack targets airports in the future, they will target busy times on the front end of the airport when/where people are checking in. It would be easy for someone to take two suitcases of explosives, walk up to a busy check-in line, ask a person next to them to watch their bags for a minute while they run to the restroom or get a drink, and then detonate the bags BEFORE security even gets involved. In Israel, security checks bags BEFORE people can even ENTER the airport.( Strangely enough they search you before you can enter Embakasi Airport in Nairobi, belt, shoes an'all, but not at Jhb. International Airport !.....Keith )


Aviv says the next terrorist attack here in America is imminent and will involve suicide bombers and non-suicide bombers in places where large groups of people congregate. (i.e., Disneyland, Las Vegas casinos, big cities (New York, San Francisco, Chicago, etc.) and that it will also include shopping malls, subways in rush hour, train stations, etc., as well as, rural America this time. The interlands (Wyoming, Montana, etc.).

The attack will be characterized by simultaneous detonations around the country (terrorists like big impact), involving at least 5-8 cities, including rural areas.

Aviv says terrorists won't need to use suicide bombers in many of the larger cities, because at places like the MGM Grand in Las Vegas, they can simply valet park a car loaded with explosives and walk away.


Aviv says all of the above is well known in intelligence circles, but that our U. S. Government does not want to 'alarm American citizens' with the facts. The world is quickly going to become 'a different place', and issues like 'global warming' and political correctness will become totally irrelevant.

On an encouraging note, he says that Americans don't have to be concerned about being nuked. Aviv says the terrorists who want to destroy America will not use sophisticated weapons. They like to use suicide as a front-line approach. It's cheap, it's easy, it's effective; and they have an infinite abundance of young militants more than willing to 'meet their destiny'.


He also says the next level of terrorists, over which America should be most concerned, will not be coming from abroad. But will be, instead, 'homegrown', having attended and been educated in our own schools and universities right here in the U.S. He says to look for 'students' who frequently travel back and forth to the Middle East. These young terrorists will be most dangerous because they will know our language and will fully understand the habits of Americans; but that we Americans won't know/understand a thing about them.

Aviv says that, as a people, Americans are unaware and uneducated about the terrorist threats we will inevitably face. America still has only a handful of Arabic and Farsi speaking people in our intelligence networks, and Aviv says it is critical that we change that fact SOON.


So, what can America do to protect itself? From an intelligence perspective, Aviv says the U.S. needs to stop relying on satellites and technology for intelligence. We need to, instead, follow Israel's, Ireland's and England's hands-on examples of human intelligence, both from an infiltration perspective as well as to pay attention to, and trust 'aware' citizens to help. We need to engage and educate ourselves as citizens; however, our U. S. government continues to treat us, its citizens, 'like babies'. Our government thinks we 'can't handle the truth' and are concerned that we'll panic if we understand the realities of terrorism. Aviv says this is a deadly mistake.

Aviv recently created/executed a security test for our Congress, by placing an empty briefcase in five well-traveled spots in five major cities. The results? Not one person called 911 or sought a policeman to check it out. In fact, in Chicago, someone tried to steal the briefcase!


In comparison, Aviv says that citizens of Israel are so well 'trained' that an unattended bag or package would be reported in seconds by citizen(s) who know to publicly shout, 'Unattended Bag!' The area would be quickly & calmly cleared by the citizens themselves.


Unfortunately, America hasn't been yet 'hurt enough' by terrorism for their government to fully understand the need to educate its citizens or for the government to understand that it's their citizens who are, inevitably, the best first-line of defense against terrorism.

Aviv also was concerned about the high number of children here in America who were in preschool and kindergarten after 9/11, who were 'lost' without parents being able to pick them up, and about our schools that had no plan in place to best care for the students until parents could get there. (In New York City, this was days, in some cases!)

He stresses the importance of having a plan, that's agreed upon within your family, of how to respond in the event of a terrorist emergency. He urges parents to contact their children's schools and demand that the schools too, develop plans of actions, just as they do in Israel.

Does your family know what to do if you can't contact one another by phone? Where would you gather in an emergency? He says we should all have a plan that is easy enough for even our youngest children to remember and follow.

Aviv says that the U. S. government has in force a plan, that in the event of another terrorist attack, EVERYONE's ability to use cell phones, blackberries, etc., will immediately be cut-off, as this is the preferred communication source used by terrorists and is often the way that their bombs are detonated.

How will you communicate with your loved ones in the event you cannot speak to each other? You need to have a plan.

If you understand, and believe what you have just read, then you must feel compelled to send this to every concerned parent, guardian, grandparents, uncles, aunts, whomever. Don't stop there. In addition to sharing this via e-mail, contact and discuss this information with whomever it makes sense to. Make contingency plans with those you care about. Better that you have plans in place, and never have to use them, then to have no plans in place, and find you needed them.

If you choose not to share this, or not to have a plan in place, and nothing ever occurs -- good for you! However, in the event something does happen, and even moreso, if it directly affects your loved ones, then this e-mail will haunt you forever.

Telling yourself after the fact, "I should have sent this to so and so, but deleted it as so much trash from old Bill Jones, plus, I just didn't believe it", will not change anything. You were alerted, had the chance to do something, and instead of erring on the side of caution, you chose to disregard, if nothing else, a sensible, valuable warning.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 2:15 pm 
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BlackCalvinist wrote:
Lil Crat wrote:
BlackCalvinist wrote:
:(



Why the sad face?


Well, we've had three attacks since Obama's taken office and today they announced Al-Queda is pretty much planning to do something major in the next few months.

Like I said back then (and everyone had a hissy fit about), attacks under Obama may or may not have happened. It would've been nice to have them fall on the 'may not' side.


From what I understand they take years to plan and pull off something major. So I personally never bought into all the talk of "we're more secure" or "there hasn't been an attack since...". Those folk are going to pull something off sooner or later really no matter whos in office. The whole thing just became one big political game while we're all still at risk. smh And I still think the risk is going to shift from these big mastermined attacks to lone wolf types of things where there no chatter to intercept. Fear of that type of attack will be worse than fear of something major.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Thu Feb 04, 2010 5:02 pm 
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BLAQUE PRINCE wrote:

From what I understand they take years to plan and pull off something major. So I personally never bought into all the talk of "we're more secure" or "there hasn't been an attack since...". Those folk are going to pull something off sooner or later really no matter whos in office. The whole thing just became one big political game while we're all still at risk. smh And I still think the risk is going to shift from these big mastermined attacks to lone wolf types of things where there no chatter to intercept. Fear of that type of attack will be worse than fear of something major.


You sound like me in this quote:
BlackCalvinist wrote:
For the benefit of those whose minds are stuck in pundit mode and reading stuff out of the text I didn't intend: a terrorist attack may or may not happen no matter WHO is in office.

Praise God we got the shoe bomber in the days after 9/11. Praise God several plots were broken up before they were able to be pulled off.

Will we continue this 'no attack' streak ? We've been attack-free since 9/11.

We probably will have a domestic some time soon.... esp. if Obama gets in office. Or McCain.



On the first page. :) Back when you, Christy and others were taking my comments as being anti-Obama. :lol: I told you all to come back in January when you're more level-headed. Glad to see you there now and not simply taking my comments as:

Quote:
Wow...are you that unnerved by the GOP losing power? The whole article wreaks of a right-winger trying to comfort themselves with the threat of a loss. If the tables were turned I doubt we'd see any such article from you.


:lol:

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 11:07 am 
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You still refuse to admit that what you meant to CONVEY is that there may or may not be an attack under either one of them...or maybe not. But what you SAID is that there could be an attack under Obama and maybe not under McCain. Had none of us said anything you would have let it stand and others reading it may have taken it literally. As I also said on the first page....

BLAQUE PRINCE wrote:
you are using the same slight of words that your pundits do.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Fri Feb 05, 2010 1:08 pm 
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Dude. Go up one post and read where I quoted me.

I explained what I meant to convey. You just want something to hang onto. Grow past it and get over it. Let ME define my words and what I meant by them and stop assuming your own omniscience on it.

Quote:
or the benefit of those whose minds are stuck in pundit mode and reading stuff out of the text I didn't intend: a terrorist attack may or may not happen no matter WHO is in office.

Praise God we got the shoe bomber in the days after 9/11. Praise God several plots were broken up before they were able to be pulled off.


Will we continue this 'no attack' streak ? We've been attack-free since 9/11.

We probably will have a domestic some time soon.... esp. if Obama gets in office. Or McCain.


Case closed.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Mon Mar 07, 2011 9:11 pm 
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:)
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 4:45 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2011 7:34 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:38 pm 
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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2011 1:40 pm 
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saxmaniac wrote:
:confused:


Ditto.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 17, 2011 11:51 am 

Question for BlackCalvinist:

Do you think that the U.S. should support Israel? This seems to be a spoken standard for each candidate. Obama came under fire once and was questioned about his support for Israel. It's even being questioned now as he is at variance with the settlement building in that country. Folk knew McCain and Hillary would continue the support, but there was a small question mark by Obama's name.

Do you think the President should continue to support Israel? Why or why not?


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:50 pm 
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SP100 wrote:
Question for BlackCalvinist:

Do you think that the U.S. should support Israel? This seems to be a spoken standard for each candidate. Obama came under fire once and was questioned about his support for Israel. It's even being questioned now as he is at variance with the settlement building in that country. Folk knew McCain and Hillary would continue the support, but there was a small question mark by Obama's name.

Do you think the President should continue to support Israel? Why or why not?


Very good question. :hall: With me, it's a long answer which ends in 'not all the time'. First, we need a bit of background on the situation:

Much of the US's support for Israel was a direct result of Dispensationalism (a theological system) during the early 1900's. While dispensationalism was good during the whole fundamentalist-modernist controversy (which also included the Scopes Monkey Trial, caused several church splits in mainline denominations in the early 1900's-1930's) because one strong point of dispensationalism is on point when it comes to its' view of the bible, one of its' central tenets is that 'Israel is God's chosen people'. With that influence, foreign policy was developed by religious politicians (including presidents) who, although they may not have actually been Christians, they were religious enough that they followed contemporary Christian culture.....simply because that's what was done.

Our country has always been influenced by Christian-esque views, even if those views weren't necessarily what the bible actually teaches. Dispensationalism, as a whole, is *NEW* to the landscape of Christian theology and is primarily an American product. By relatively new, I mean mid-1800's to the present. Around the rest of the world, dispensationalism gets looked at a bit weird (since a lot of it, as a system, isn't present in the other 1850 years of Christian history down to that point....).

A very brief summary of dispensational beliefs (this list should sound familiar to most people, since the system is assumed as 'but I thought this was what all Christians believed' in the bulk of the United States):

- When the bible says 'church', it means church. When it says 'Israel', it means national/ethnic Israel. All the time, every time.
- There are two peoples' of God in scripture - Israel and the Church. Promises made to Israel in the OT still apply, including the promises to 'dwell in the land forever', 'possess the land forever', etc.....hence, the claim to the land in the area. That also includes the claim to bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.
- the church is a 'mystery' not revealed in the Old Testament. No one expected it.
- when Jesus came, He legitimately offered the kingdom of God to Israel, they rejected it, so now the gospel goes out to the rest of the world. The kingdom will come when Christ returns. The church is an interuption/intercolation between those times. During this time, Israel has a partial spiritual blindness upon her so that the majority of Jews today continue to reject their Messiah (per Romans 10).
- pretribulational 'rapture' (removal of the church - which is composed of all believers in Christ since pentecost) before a 7 year tribulation period (aka the Left Behind book series). God will go back to dealing with Israel during the tribulation period.
- the bible should be interpreted according to the grammatical and historical context it was written in (aka 'literal' or grammatical-historical interpretation).

Interestingly, gram-hist interpretation is what actually led me to reject dispensationalism and end up in reformed theology....which also claims gram-hist interpretation. But that's a conversation for another time.

I hope you and others don't blow a gasket over 'religion' being used to determine foreign policy (or ANY policy). Fact is, everyone's religious views are used to determine foreign policy and domestic policy. Even if you believe that domestic policy should operate autonomously from religious beliefs - that in and of itself is a religious view (it assumes the autonomy of man apart from God and man's complete sovereignty over his own affairs). If you're a 'Jefferson Bible Christian' like our president (cut out the parts you don't like, ignore the supernatural parts but keep the moral examples), you're still working on religious assumptions and viewpoints.

Even atheism is a religious viewpoint, since it assumes to answer metaphysical questions (not scientific ones!) by claiming that there is no evidence to justify belief in a supernatural being (although some atheists are honest enough to admit that the real reason they deny the existence of God is so they can do what they want to do without fear of judgement for their actions eventually coming upon them....so they think).

As mentioned above, I reject dispensational theology. The pretrib rapture is assumed by every major dispensational writer, not clearly articulated in the text of scripture (even THEY admit that). There is only one people of God, composed of believers from ALL ages in history. Romans 2 and Romans 9:1-9 make that real clear - 'all Israel (ethnic) is not Israel (the people of God)'. By Romans 9:25-30, we learn that even when ethnic/national Israel was around, only a remnant of those were actually His people. According to Galatians 2, those who are Christ's are the heirs to the promises given to Abraham and his descendants. One people of God. That includes the 'land' promises - which, according to Hebrews 11:13-16 did not simply refer to that narrow stretch of land over in Palestine/Eurasia/Africa, but 'a better country - a heavenly one'. Near the return of Christ, I do agree with dispensationalism (although it is not a 'dispensational' belief exclusively) that there will be a mass conversion of Jews to Christianity, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be a nation/country for it to happen.

Having this understanding of dispensational theological influence in mind, many Americans in the early to mid 20th century followed the whole 'support Israel' track. That, combined with the Holocaust, combined with the Truman doctrine of fighting against 'totalitarian regimes' (and most of the middle east's countries were not democracies in the late 40's), the Zionist movement from 1912 onward as well as the US simply wanting a 'presence' in the middle east (which probably weighed heavier with some more secular folks in government) all combined together to get us where we are today.

They've been historic partners with the US since the late 40's when they re-established themselves as a country after 1900 years of absence (Israel as a country was demolished with the destruction of the temple in AD 70). We've seen ourselves at odds with Israel several times over the decades, but we've still sent...what....over 1 trillion in aid to Israel since 1945 ?

Meh.

The theological reasons for the administration to support them have long since waned and every move from Kennedy forward has purely been based off of strategic advantage to access to the middle east.

Sometimes they're right. In accordance with the normal US policy of being the world's Captain Save-A-Hoe-If-There-Something-In-It-For-Us, it's good that the US is there since it keeps the surrounding Arab countries from wiping it off the face of the planet (which most of them want to do and have openly stated). A stable middle east is good for US interests. Remember WWII - an unstable Europe....eventually found its' way to Pearl Harbor, even though we said we were going to stay out of it.

Sometimes they're wrong. There've been countless instances of Israel demolishing homes of Palestinians and non-Israelites who live in the area....just because they weren't Jewish. They typically dislike the children of Ishmael as much as the other way around, so at times, they are not acting in 'purity' either. Unfortunately, in most popular American Christian circles, again - due to dispensational theology as an influence - a blind eye gets turned to the crap that Israel as a country does. That ain't right.

So....all that said....for both political and spiritual reasons, we should sometimes support Israel. They're there, they exist, they established themselves as a country just like everyone else (through war and taking over land afterward). They give us a 'spot' in hostile territory to work through (contrary to many, I don't think Arab and Muslim relations with the US in general would be better if we weren't allies with Israel).

How's that ? :)

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 1:25 pm 

BlackCalvinist wrote:
SP100 wrote:
Question for BlackCalvinist:

Do you think that the U.S. should support Israel? This seems to be a spoken standard for each candidate. Obama came under fire once and was questioned about his support for Israel. It's even being questioned now as he is at variance with the settlement building in that country. Folk knew McCain and Hillary would continue the support, but there was a small question mark by Obama's name.

Do you think the President should continue to support Israel? Why or why not?


Very good question. :hall: With me, it's a long answer which ends in 'not all the time'. First, we need a bit of background on the situation:

Much of the US's support for Israel was a direct result of Dispensationalism (a theological system) during the early 1900's. While dispensationalism was good during the whole fundamentalist-modernist controversy (which also included the Scopes Monkey Trial, caused several church splits in mainline denominations in the early 1900's-1930's) because one strong point of dispensationalism is on point when it comes to its' view of the bible, one of its' central tenets is that 'Israel is God's chosen people'. With that influence, foreign policy was developed by religious politicians (including presidents) who, although they may not have actually been Christians, they were religious enough that they followed contemporary Christian culture.....simply because that's what was done.

Our country has always been influenced by Christian-esque views, even if those views weren't necessarily what the bible actually teaches. Dispensationalism, as a whole, is *NEW* to the landscape of Christian theology and is primarily an American product. By relatively new, I mean mid-1800's to the present. Around the rest of the world, dispensationalism gets looked at a bit weird (since a lot of it, as a system, isn't present in the other 1850 years of Christian history down to that point....).

A very brief summary of dispensational beliefs (this list should sound familiar to most people, since the system is assumed as 'but I thought this was what all Christians believed' in the bulk of the United States):

- When the bible says 'church', it means church. When it says 'Israel', it means national/ethnic Israel. All the time, every time.
- There are two peoples' of God in scripture - Israel and the Church. Promises made to Israel in the OT still apply, including the promises to 'dwell in the land forever', 'possess the land forever', etc.....hence, the claim to the land in the area. That also includes the claim to bless those who bless you and curse those who curse you.
- the church is a 'mystery' not revealed in the Old Testament. No one expected it.
- when Jesus came, He legitimately offered the kingdom of God to Israel, they rejected it, so now the gospel goes out to the rest of the world. The kingdom will come when Christ returns. The church is an interuption/intercolation between those times. During this time, Israel has a partial spiritual blindness upon her so that the majority of Jews today continue to reject their Messiah (per Romans 10).
- pretribulational 'rapture' (removal of the church - which is composed of all believers in Christ since pentecost) before a 7 year tribulation period (aka the Left Behind book series). God will go back to dealing with Israel during the tribulation period.
- the bible should be interpreted according to the grammatical and historical context it was written in (aka 'literal' or grammatical-historical interpretation).

Interestingly, gram-hist interpretation is what actually led me to reject dispensationalism and end up in reformed theology....which also claims gram-hist interpretation. But that's a conversation for another time.

I hope you and others don't blow a gasket over 'religion' being used to determine foreign policy (or ANY policy). Fact is, everyone's religious views are used to determine foreign policy and domestic policy. Even if you believe that domestic policy should operate autonomously from religious beliefs - that in and of itself is a religious view (it assumes the autonomy of man apart from God and man's complete sovereignty over his own affairs). If you're a 'Jefferson Bible Christian' like our president (cut out the parts you don't like, ignore the supernatural parts but keep the moral examples), you're still working on religious assumptions and viewpoints.

Even atheism is a religious viewpoint, since it assumes to answer metaphysical questions (not scientific ones!) by claiming that there is no evidence to justify belief in a supernatural being (although some atheists are honest enough to admit that the real reason they deny the existence of God is so they can do what they want to do without fear of judgement for their actions eventually coming upon them....so they think).

As mentioned above, I reject dispensational theology. The pretrib rapture is assumed by every major dispensational writer, not clearly articulated in the text of scripture (even THEY admit that). There is only one people of God, composed of believers from ALL ages in history. Romans 2 and Romans 9:1-9 make that real clear - 'all Israel (ethnic) is not Israel (the people of God)'. By Romans 9:25-30, we learn that even when ethnic/national Israel was around, only a remnant of those were actually His people. According to Galatians 2, those who are Christ's are the heirs to the promises given to Abraham and his descendants. One people of God. That includes the 'land' promises - which, according to Hebrews 11:13-16 did not simply refer to that narrow stretch of land over in Palestine/Eurasia/Africa, but 'a better country - a heavenly one'. Near the return of Christ, I do agree with dispensationalism (although it is not a 'dispensational' belief exclusively) that there will be a mass conversion of Jews to Christianity, but that doesn't necessarily mean they have to be a nation/country for it to happen.

Having this understanding of dispensational theological influence in mind, many Americans in the early to mid 20th century followed the whole 'support Israel' track. That, combined with the Holocaust, combined with the Truman doctrine of fighting against 'totalitarian regimes' (and most of the middle east's countries were not democracies in the late 40's), the Zionist movement from 1912 onward as well as the US simply wanting a 'presence' in the middle east (which probably weighed heavier with some more secular folks in government) all combined together to get us where we are today.

They've been historic partners with the US since the late 40's when they re-established themselves as a country after 1900 years of absence (Israel as a country was demolished with the destruction of the temple in AD 70). We've seen ourselves at odds with Israel several times over the decades, but we've still sent...what....over 1 trillion in aid to Israel since 1945 ?

Meh.

The theological reasons for the administration to support them have long since waned and every move from Kennedy forward has purely been based off of strategic advantage to access to the middle east.

Sometimes they're right. In accordance with the normal US policy of being the world's Captain Save-A-Hoe-If-There-Something-In-It-For-Us, it's good that the US is there since it keeps the surrounding Arab countries from wiping it off the face of the planet (which most of them want to do and have openly stated). A stable middle east is good for US interests. Remember WWII - an unstable Europe....eventually found its' way to Pearl Harbor, even though we said we were going to stay out of it.

Sometimes they're wrong. There've been countless instances of Israel demolishing homes of Palestinians and non-Israelites who live in the area....just because they weren't Jewish. They typically dislike the children of Ishmael as much as the other way around, so at times, they are not acting in 'purity' either. Unfortunately, in most popular American Christian circles, again - due to dispensational theology as an influence - a blind eye gets turned to the crap that Israel as a country does. That ain't right.

So....all that said....for both political and spiritual reasons, we should sometimes support Israel. They're there, they exist, they established themselves as a country just like everyone else (through war and taking over land afterward). They give us a 'spot' in hostile territory to work through (contrary to many, I don't think Arab and Muslim relations with the US in general would be better if we weren't allies with Israel).

How's that ? :)


To be expected... :lol:

Tell me... How many abortions were performed in Israel last year, and for what reason? Does Israel recognize gay marriage? Do they allow gay folk to openly serve in the military? If yes, then why do so-called Christian conservatives say we should support Israel? They would NOT support a president in favor of these things, but are quick to tell that president to support a nation that does the very things they oppose. Why is this?


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Thu Mar 31, 2011 9:27 pm 
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SP100 wrote:
To be expected... :lol:

Tell me... How many abortions were performed in Israel last year, and for what reason?


Don't know....

Quote:
Does Israel recognize gay marriage? Do they allow gay folk to openly serve in the military?


Don't know....

Quote:
If yes, then why do so-called Christian conservatives say we should support Israel?


Did you read the above post all the way through ? :lol: Dispensational folks tend to have blinders on to a lot of stuff that they should be raising a BIG stink about.

That's why theology is important. Wrong theology, and you let a lot of mess slide by.....

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Fri Apr 01, 2011 1:32 pm 

Yeah, I read it. :blah:

:lol:


  
 
 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 5:12 pm 
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.....Please remove this post thanks.

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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Sun May 08, 2011 6:37 pm 
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Phreaking_Insane wrote:
.....Please remove this post thanks.


Why ?

_________________
LIVE your theology.
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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____loses ?
PostPosted: Fri Nov 15, 2013 5:35 pm 
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Oooh look! A Penny!

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_________________
LIVE your theology.
http://theologicallycorrect.com
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Everybody believes *something* about God. That's all theology is. The question is...is what you believe about God TRUE?
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 Post subject: Re: Thinking Biblically Commentary Special: What if ____lose
PostPosted: Thu Jun 30, 2016 2:09 pm 
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8 years later......

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