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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:10 am 
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SonicSound wrote:
DukeLOrange wrote:
BlackCalvinist wrote:
Oppressed yes, persecuted no. I've met persecuted Christians.

It's fashionable to mock Christians and the essential message of Christianity hasn't changed in 2000+ years.[/quote
+1

Hate the sin, not the sinner....



That's the thing. People blow my f'ing mind with their forced dogma. We don't all believe what you believe. Jesus is your lord. The Bible is your compass, but I have the right to choose mine. For that reason, this "hate the sin not the sinner" is no different than someone saying blacks should have all the rights afford by the Constitutions, bit their still an inferior race.


I for one don't think one is born gay. So that comparison isn't the same. People classify it as an alternative lifestyle. If it's not the norm biologically, and people are wearing it like a badge of honor than expect some backlash. Freedom of speech and all that.


Everyone has a right to thier moral compass. But we also have a right to state our opinions on that said compass.

Oh and Biblically, it's wrong to along with fornication and having divorces all willy nilly.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:20 am 
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DukeLOrange wrote:

I for one don't think one is born gay.


On a different subject:

I think it's kind of humerous when I hear "straight" men say that gay men are not born gay. Is there some evidence that this decision was not made for you at birth? :yuhh:

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 9:33 am 
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Randy wrote:
DukeLOrange wrote:

I for one don't think one is born gay.


On a different subject:

I think it's kind of humerous when I hear "straight" men say that gay men are not born gay. Is there some evidence that this decision was not made for you at birth? :yuhh:


I know what you mean. I feel the same way when gay men say the opposite.

Every person has a choice of the life they live. But one has to live with whatever comes with it. I choose to wait until marriage to have sex. I got teased because of it by men AND women in high school and college.

I have no problem with anyone's choice. I have a problem with those people not wanting to deal with the baggage that comes with it.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 10:27 am 
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DukeLOrange wrote:

I know what you mean. I feel the same way when gay men say the opposite.

Every person has a choice of the life they live. But one has to live with whatever comes with it. I choose to wait until marriage to have sex. I got teased because of it by men AND women in high school and college.

I have no problem with anyone's choice. I have a problem with those people not wanting to deal with the baggage that comes with it.



Wait. You "feel the same way when gay men say the opposite." What are you talking about? What does that even mean? Is that some sort of converse logic meant to prove something? That statement alone is so illogical it's not worth discussing any further. Next point.

Who cares what you think? I think unicorns rode on the back of Jesus while at Disney Land 100 years ago. Does that make it true? How can you, a confessed "straight man" tell a gay man or woman how he or she was born? Not to personally attack you, and I'm really not trying to, but only an idiot would make such an assertion.

To further stress this point, I know nothing about medicine and I know even less about being a doctor. Now, let me walk into an ER and start confessing what I think as opposed to listening to those in the know. Let's see how many people I successfully kill while thinking I know about the experience of being a doctor when I don't know anything outside of what I think.

What you "think" about being gay is coming from a place of ignorance. As a result, I would admonish you to maybe talk to a group of gay men and women. You might find, what you think and what is reality aren't one in the same.

Lastly, your choosing to be black justifies me calling you a ni33er. I have no problem with you being a ni33er; it's your choice. When you chose to be black you should've understood that some would refer to you as a ni33er. I know the baggage is heavy, ni33er, but when you chose to be black I'm sure you were prepared for the baggage that came with being a ni33er.

Go back and re-read some of your post. The first one on this page is so outlandish it didn't justify a response ... at least not from me. Adjust yourself; your ignorance is showing.


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 11:48 am 
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I was texting it in via cell phone, so it may not have come out the way it supposed to.

Let me restate my point now that I have time and a computer...

Comparing the plight of the gay person and the struggle of the African American is not the same. I think it's stupid for someone to call another out of my name for something they didn't choose to be. If there was a choice to be black or white, I think at this stage of the game, some black people would rethink their current status real quick.

Being a particular race is not a choice. I believe being gay is a choice. That's my opinion. Biologically, how would one mammal reproduce? How do people go back and forth from being gay and straight? Explain "going both ways". All that boils down to choice. Not birth.

I have a right to my views. Gay america has the right to live their life as long as it doesn't interfere with my or anyone else's life. My views do not interfere with who I associate with at all. If a gay person is qualified for a job over a straight person, they should get the job.

Again, my views are my own, and it doesn't interfere with anybody else's freedoms. If I offended some, still continue to live your life the way America intended.

If you think I'm ignorant in my views. That's my God given right as well...

Back to the topic... I think Michael Sam is a decent player. When he gets drafted, good for him. I would suggest from here on in, to let his stats speak for him. I wish him well. I just don't think he will go in the first round.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:03 pm 
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DukeLOrange wrote:
I was texting it in via cell phone, so it may not have come out the way it supposed to.

Let me restate my point now that I have time and a computer...

Comparing the plight of the gay person and the struggle of the African American is not the same. I think it's stupid for someone to call another out of my name for something they didn't choose to be. If there was a choice to be black or white, I think at this stage of the game, some black people would rethink their current status real quick.

Being a particular race is not a choice. I believe being gay is a choice. That's my opinion. Biologically, how would one mammal reproduce? How do people go back and forth from being gay and straight? Explain "going both ways". All that boils down to choice. Not birth.

I have a right to my views. Gay america has the right to live their life as long as it doesn't interfere with my or anyone else's life. My views do not interfere with who I associate with at all. If a gay person is qualified for a job over a straight person, they should get the job.

Again, my views are my own, and it doesn't interfere with anybody else's freedoms. If I offended some, still continue to live your life the way America intended.

If you think I'm ignorant in my views. That's my God given right as well...

Back to the topic... I think Michael Sam is a decent player. When he gets drafted, good for him. I would suggest from here on in, to let his stats speak for him. I wish him well. I just don't think he will go in the first round.



I wish I had the time and energy to explain to you the many fallacies in your statements, but I don't and something tells me it wouldn't do much good anyway. I'll leave you with this: If you can't see the human parallels between the black experience and the plight of homosexual Americans, it's because you don't want to see it. See Rev. Jesse Jackson and the Rainbow PUSH Coalition, Rev. Al Sharpton, Rev. Joseph Lawry and Chairman Emeritus of the NAACP, Julian Bond. Read their words on the issue; not mine.

By your own admission: "I think it's stupid for someone to call another out of [their] name for something they didn't choose to be." Really? I agree. Maybe you should say it to yourself a few more times, then listen to gay Americans as they tell you and anyone who will listen, it's not a choice. But then again ... you know that it is a choice, right!

You're right! You do have the right to your views. From your holy book: The way of a fool seems right to him (all he knows are his ways), but a wise man listens to the counsel of those who know better.


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:28 pm 
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We'll have to agree to disagree. I'm straight, but also a Christian so from a Biblical standpoint, you don't know better...

Genesis 19:1-11
Leviticus 18:22 (Found this at Honda)
Leviticus 20:13

It IS a sin to judge you and say you are not making it to Heaven cause I have other sins I have to correct.

This is why Gay America should not to be singled out or persecuted. It's their choice to make not everyone else's. If I hire a co-worker that's qualified and their gay. So what. As long as they can help me sell these cell phones, so we can make some commission...

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 12:53 pm 
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DukeLOrange wrote:
I was texting it in via cell phone, so it may not have come out the way it supposed to.

Let me restate my point now that I have time and a computer...

Comparing the plight of the gay person and the struggle of the African American is not the same. I think it's stupid for someone to call another out of my name for something they didn't choose to be. If there was a choice to be black or white, I think at this stage of the game, some black people would rethink their current status real quick.

Being a particular race is not a choice. I believe being gay is a choice. That's my opinion. Biologically, how would one mammal reproduce? How do people go back and forth from being gay and straight? Explain "going both ways". All that boils down to choice. Not birth.

I have a right to my views. Gay america has the right to live their life as long as it doesn't interfere with my or anyone else's life. My views do not interfere with who I associate with at all. If a gay person is qualified for a job over a straight person, they should get the job.

Again, my views are my own, and it doesn't interfere with anybody else's freedoms. If I offended some, still continue to live your life the way America intended.

If you think I'm ignorant in my views. That's my God given right as well...

Back to the topic... I think Michael Sam is a decent player. When he gets drafted, good for him. I would suggest from here on in, to let his stats speak for him. I wish him well. I just don't think he will go in the first round.

Technically, we are still on subject because Michael Sam is the mascot of this issue.

It's not that I'm offended. I just can't help but feel that there is some form of prejudice that straight men have towards gay men. Whenever I have these dialogs, with people just as intelligent as you, the logic is always twisted. Even, when you have living proof, our testimony is dismissed and you base your opinion on something you never experienced. I find it hard to believe that people with Masters and Bachelor's degrees, can be so intelligent on all issues, yet archaic when it comes to this discussion. Almost as if they refuse to accept facts.

I have two questions/thoughts for you.

1. Who told you that gay people want to be gay? Because I was never included in the decisioning process, nor do I want to be gay.

2. Using the excuse that gay is a choice because it wasn't biologically intended is invalid. Cancer wasn't biologically intended, Asthma wasn't intended, slow metabolism wasn't intended, being born with 6 fingers wasn't intended, yet people are born with these anomalies daily.

Here's what I think, and some may be offended by this:
Some straight men have prejudices against gay men because at some point they may have experienced something that was questionable, and they assume that questionable moment was the "ultimate" choice gay people marked "Yes" on.

Sorry, to disappoint you. But homosexuality has more depth and is less trivial than that.

I will create a "Signs that you may or may not be gay" thread soon.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:03 pm 
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SonicSound wrote:
I am, however, asking you to stop pretending as if everyone embraces yours.


THAT is actually the strawman here. I don't pretend anyone and everyone embraces my viewpoint.

What I have asked was simple:
BlackCalvinist wrote:

So why should I accept your dogma (you have the right to chose your own compass) ? Why should I have your dogmatic position of keeping my faith to myself and in a closet somewhere other than in the public eye ?


You responded:
Quote:
Wait. Who asked you to accept my dogma? No one, I repeat no one is asking you to embrace my world outlook.


Yet, immediately after that, you asked me to embrace something. :wink:

Quote:
The United States isn't a theocracy.


Never said it was. You're arguing with a figment of your imagination and MSNBC.

Quote:
Moreover, there is a reason why the founders believed in the separation of religion from the state


Separation of church and state did not mean DIVORCE of church and state. What it meant was simply that each institution had its' own function - the church doesn't collect taxes, the state doesn't dictate worship and preach sermons. This is why the founders - Deist, Christian, CULTURALLY Christian, etc…. all had no issues making reference to God, Jesus, etc… and even having the starting basis of the declaration of independence based on rights that are inherently given (not simply inherent) by the Creator.

All viewpoints - INCLUDING YOURS - are based on implicit and/or explicit religious/metaphysical assumptions. You assume an absolute basis for right and wrong by which you then impose your judgment (according to your own self-righteous standard, by the way) upon Christians and Christianity and make moral determinations (again, based on your own self-righteous and internal standard) and look down your nose at Christians and others who claim an external standard.

So again I ask - why should I do as you say and hold to your dogma ?

Quote:
And while I have you, If you truly believe Christians are being persecuted in the United States, I have a gang of Muslims I want you to meet.


People like you never see it, even when its' shown to you. Battery's about to die on the computer, but I'll post quite a bit at home.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:24 pm 
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Uh oh... the Big Guns entered the thread. Stand your ground!!!

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 1:59 pm 
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A line item response resulting in you having said nothing is a waste of your time. I will not waste an ounce of mine.

Your opinions based on your book of allegory means nothing to me. Nothing. I boink women. My father pastors a mega-church and teaches seminary at Emory. My grandfather was a minister. My grandfather before him was a minister. I can speak your language just as well as I know my name, but speaking it doesn't make it right, nor does it give anyone the right to discriminate.

"I believe what the bible says. What you're saying is not in the bible. What you're saying cant be true." Get the fugg out here! Play that game with someone who lacks the ability to think logically and draw sound conclusions based reason.

When you're ready to speak factually, I'll respond, but so long as you're regurgitating "stuff" you've learned on Sunday or in a seminary class, I'll continue to overlook your post. Circular arguments have NO PLACE in a debate!


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 2:01 pm 
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Randy wrote:
Uh oh... the Big Guns entered the thread. Stand your ground!!!

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Is that what he was supposed to be?


... I'm kidding, BlackCalvinist! Lol


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 7:38 pm 
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SonicSound wrote:
When you're ready to speak factually, I'll respond, but so long as you're regurgitating "stuff" you've learned on Sunday or in a seminary class, I'll continue to overlook your post. Circular arguments have NO PLACE in a debate!


Nice attempt - the problem is, you've also stabbed yourself in the foot. "I don't believe in the bible. I believe my own personal opinion and hold it as the standard of truth. Therefore, nothing you can say will convince me. My relatives all grew up in church and I've heard it all. I choose to believe myself."

All arguments are circular by nature and assume what they argue for. Some circles are just 'bigger' than others. In discussions and debates, what you want to avoid is a vicious circle, because those are usually missing most of the 'scaffolding' necessary to demonstrate the validity of the argument.

The real reason you won't go line by line is because I've already attacked the heart of your argumentation in my opening statement and you have nothing left but bluster. Your dad pastoring a mega-church and having relatives grow up in the church, serve in the church, etc…..means nothing in the grand scheme of things, as I don't speak 'mega-church' language when dialoging about the Christian faith. You'll be talking black church culture language, I'll be talking Bible (and they are NOT the same).

Back to the initial question.

Quote:
All viewpoints - INCLUDING YOURS - are based on implicit and/or explicit religious/metaphysical assumptions. You assume an absolute basis for right and wrong by which you then impose your judgment (according to your own self-righteous standard, by the way) upon Christians and Christianity and make moral determinations (again, based on your own self-righteous and internal standard) and look down your nose at Christians and others who claim an external standard.

So again I ask - why should I do as you say and hold to your dogma ?


So answer the question.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:27 pm 
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BlackCalvinist wrote:
SonicSound wrote:
When you're ready to speak factually, I'll respond, but so long as you're regurgitating "stuff" you've learned on Sunday or in a seminary class, I'll continue to overlook your post. Circular arguments have NO PLACE in a debate!


Nice attempt - the problem is, you've also stabbed yourself in the foot. "I don't believe in the bible. I believe my own personal opinion and hold it as the standard of truth. Therefore, nothing you can say will convince me. My relatives all grew up in church and I've heard it all. I choose to believe myself."

All arguments are circular by nature and assume what they argue for. Some circles are just 'bigger' than others. In discussions and debates, what you want to avoid is a vicious circle, because those are usually missing most of the 'scaffolding' necessary to demonstrate the validity of the argument.

The real reason you won't go line by line is because I've already attacked the heart of your argumentation in my opening statement and you have nothing left but bluster. Your dad pastoring a mega-church and having relatives grow up in the church, serve in the church, etc…..means nothing in the grand scheme of things, as I don't speak 'mega-church' language when dialoging about the Christian faith. You'll be talking black church culture language, I'll be talking Bible (and they are NOT the same).

Back to the initial question.

Quote:
All viewpoints - INCLUDING YOURS - are based on implicit and/or explicit religious/metaphysical assumptions. You assume an absolute basis for right and wrong by which you then impose your judgment (according to your own self-righteous standard, by the way) upon Christians and Christianity and make moral determinations (again, based on your own self-righteous and internal standard) and look down your nose at Christians and others who claim an external standard.

So again I ask - why should I do as you say and hold to your dogma ?


So answer the question.



You can't be serious! You can't! I'm reading this bs and really don't believe you're serious. I don't know if I should laugh or question your education.

At this point your typing for the sake of typing. You can't honestly believe those four half-witted paragraphs of nothingness, I guess that's the best way of describing them, actually makes any sense. Did you read them?

All arguments are circular, lol? I've attacked the heart of my argument? My opening statement is shot? My views are *clears throat* based on "implicit and/or explicit religious/metaphysical assumption?" LMFAO! Is this this the crap you're used to getting away and calling it higher thought? Is this the type of stuff you spew at the people in this form and they give you a pass because they tire with reading your half-thought positions? My JD says no!

Your positions are nonsensical at best. You have a clear problem with making probability judgments based on conditional probabilities, without taking into account the effect of prior probabilities lol. Likewise, you make arguments using a universal premise, then draw a particular conclusion based on said universal premis lol. Smh! No really ... smh! And don't get me started on your arguments of repetition, from silence, and your false dilemmas. There are many more, but I'll stop there so your friends can continue to believe you're some sort of band forum scholar.

Between you and I, it's clear I'm not having an exchange with a person of equal intelligence. A blind 0L could see the fallacies in your positions, my joke of the night. You're a pseudo- intellectual promulgating half-thought positions of nothingness while shrouding them in lackluster biblical analysis. You're a joke! No, wait. You're not a joke ... you're just not that serious.


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Apr 01, 2014 8:49 pm 
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More bluster and ad hominems (as predicted).

Answer the question.

Quote:
All viewpoints - INCLUDING YOURS - are based on implicit and/or explicit religious/metaphysical assumptions. You assume an absolute basis for right and wrong by which you then impose your judgment (according to your own self-righteous standard, by the way) upon Christians and Christianity and make moral determinations (again, based on your own self-righteous and internal standard) and look down your nose at Christians and others who claim an external standard.

So again I ask - why should I do as you say and hold to your dogma ?

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 8:05 am 
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FYI - I plan on rejoining this discussion after I figure out what the hell some of these big words mean. But I'm pretty sure it's an inside joke about my mom.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 9:23 am 
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Randy wrote:
FYI - I plan on rejoining this discussion after I figure out what the hell some of these big words mean. But I'm pretty sure it's an inside joke about my mom.


Ain't nobody talking' bout your momma. We don't know him like that.











:rotfl:

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Wed Apr 02, 2014 11:54 am 
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No he didnt

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Sat May 10, 2014 8:41 pm 
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Mr. Sam got drafted and he cried like a baby... Hopefully he will get some real playing time without getting cut. Since he's not a box office player, if he does get released, he won't be missed.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Mon May 12, 2014 12:05 pm 
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I don't know if he's box office, but his jerseys are selling like Hotcakes.

http://www.outsports.com/2014/5/12/5709 ... fl-rookies

At the end of the day, if u can play, you can play. Every time one of America's stereotypical strongholds gets broken, it's going to be all over the news as a story. Deal with it. Whether it's a Black President, a Female Presidential front runner, a Hispanic Pope, a young CEO of a Fortune 500 country, a white rapper, an all black female flight crew, a mixed race couple on a cereal commercial, an octogenarian leading a comedy series or a Gay NFL or NBA Player. Folks in the majority will either welcome diversity or get irritated to see the new demographic getting attention.

It is what it is. If ur against the group, you probably will do what anti groups have done for centuries: spew venue at every non-straight-middle-aged-white-male in the nation that breaks the mold or gets attention.


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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:30 pm 
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DukeLOrange wrote:
Mr. Sam got drafted and he cried like a baby... Hopefully he will get some real playing time without getting cut. Since he's not a box office player, if he does get released, he won't be missed.


I'm afraid he's uncuttable (I know that's not a word, but you get my point).

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Wed May 14, 2014 4:44 pm 
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funkie junkie wrote:
DukeLOrange wrote:
Mr. Sam got drafted and he cried like a baby... Hopefully he will get some real playing time without getting cut. Since he's not a box office player, if he does get released, he won't be missed.


I'm afraid he's uncuttable (I know that's not a word, but you get my point).


It might be hard for them to cut him, but if it's obvious that others on the team are performing better than he is, then he's as good as gone.

Best thing for him to do is his job, and to do it WELL. I don't think that he wants to survive being cut because of his preference.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Thu May 15, 2014 9:03 am 
Drum Major

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He does need to perform. But, he'll be given many more opportunities to be successful than the typical 7th-round pick would be allotted.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Wed Jul 23, 2014 11:24 am 
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Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:08 am
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So far, he's handling his business.

I haven't seen him play, and I know that when you get picked doesn't mean that you will be successful in the NFL. I know he will at least get some playing time in the pre-season games. That will determine his worth. I think it will take some seasons to see how good he is.

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 Post subject: Re: Michael Sam: Coming out
PostPosted: Tue Sep 02, 2014 7:32 am 
Living Legend

Joined: Mon Aug 20, 2007 9:08 am
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He got cut... and WWE is inviting him to next week's RAW?!?!?!?

If he wants to be taken seriously Michael better not take this gig. He might get sided with Adam Rose....

Darren Young has to be upset for this.

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